Comments on: A Question of Ethics http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/blog/2009/06/25/a-question-of-ethics/ Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:29:08 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Honesty versus Community « The e-Fiction Book Club http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/blog/2009/06/25/a-question-of-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-1175 Honesty versus Community « The e-Fiction Book Club Sat, 18 Jul 2009 01:12:53 +0000 http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/?p=2365#comment-1175 [...] by Merrilee I got into a discussion with Henry Baum over at the Self Publishing Review about ethical reviewing which, as you might guess, is a subject dear to my [...] [...] by Merrilee I got into a discussion with Henry Baum over at the Self Publishing Review about ethical reviewing which, as you might guess, is a subject dear to my [...]

]]> By: Henry Baum http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/blog/2009/06/25/a-question-of-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-1188 Henry Baum Fri, 17 Jul 2009 23:59:09 +0000 http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/?p=2365#comment-1188 On Backword, we decided to put up Scribd embeds for all our books. These types of embeds (BookGlutton, Freado) are the future of self-publishing because they help offset the problem of not being able to pick up a book and take it for a test run. A really important development. BTW, click on "The Scourge of Good Amazon Reviews" above. I've turned this discussion into a post. On Backword, we decided to put up Scribd embeds for all our books. These types of embeds (BookGlutton, Freado) are the future of self-publishing because they help offset the problem of not being able to pick up a book and take it for a test run. A really important development.

BTW, click on “The Scourge of Good Amazon Reviews” above. I’ve turned this discussion into a post.

]]> By: The Scourge of Good Amazon Reviews | Self-Publishing Review http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/blog/2009/06/25/a-question-of-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-1187 The Scourge of Good Amazon Reviews | Self-Publishing Review Fri, 17 Jul 2009 23:53:33 +0000 http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/?p=2365#comment-1187 [...] This criticism has come up twice now on the site, recently in this comment: [...] [...] This criticism has come up twice now on the site, recently in this comment: [...]

]]> By: Merrilee http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/blog/2009/06/25/a-question-of-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-1189 Merrilee Fri, 17 Jul 2009 23:38:20 +0000 http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/?p=2365#comment-1189 "Trouble is, what can the wary buyer use as a guide other than “reviews”? Most self-published books are sold online, with little opportunity for the buyer to sample them." I second what Steve said. And I agree with you Henry, that readers should look at reliable sources, but if you're a reader, how do you find the review sites? Something like the 'click to look inside' feature would certainly attract me as a reader, because that's what I would do in a bookshop. At least the first page of the first chapter should be available. Interesting discussion anyway :) “Trouble is, what can the wary buyer use as a guide other than “reviews”? Most self-published books are sold online, with little opportunity for the buyer to sample them.”

I second what Steve said. And I agree with you Henry, that readers should look at reliable sources, but if you’re a reader, how do you find the review sites?

Something like the ‘click to look inside’ feature would certainly attract me as a reader, because that’s what I would do in a bookshop. At least the first page of the first chapter should be available.

Interesting discussion anyway :)

]]> By: Steve Reynolds http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/blog/2009/06/25/a-question-of-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-1174 Steve Reynolds Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:15:18 +0000 http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/?p=2365#comment-1174 Sham reviewing is pretty transparent, especially at Amazon: such reviews are poorly written, hyperbolic and empty. If I see a self-published book on Amazon with less than five reviews and they're all these kind of semi-literate 5-star ones, then I tend to ignore them. It doesn't mean the book is bad, it just means I don't trust the commentary. As with any purchase, it's a case of "buyer beware". Trouble is, what can the wary buyer use as a guide other than "reviews"? Most self-published books are sold online, with little opportunity for the buyer to sample them. If I read a glowing review of a traditionally published book, I can wander down to my local bookstore and check it out for myself. I can't do that with a self-published book. To remedy this, I'd love to see more self-published authors offer downloadable PDF extracts from their work - maybe the first chapter or three. If they sell via Amazon, they could look into enabling the "Click to LOOK INSIDE!" feature. I'm guessing Amazon charges for that, but it might be worth it - especially if you think the quality of your writing is a strong differentiator in a crowded market with wary readers. Sham reviewing is pretty transparent, especially at Amazon: such reviews are poorly written, hyperbolic and empty. If I see a self-published book on Amazon with less than five reviews and they’re all these kind of semi-literate 5-star ones, then I tend to ignore them. It doesn’t mean the book is bad, it just means I don’t trust the commentary. As with any purchase, it’s a case of “buyer beware”.

Trouble is, what can the wary buyer use as a guide other than “reviews”? Most self-published books are sold online, with little opportunity for the buyer to sample them. If I read a glowing review of a traditionally published book, I can wander down to my local bookstore and check it out for myself. I can’t do that with a self-published book. To remedy this, I’d love to see more self-published authors offer downloadable PDF extracts from their work – maybe the first chapter or three. If they sell via Amazon, they could look into enabling the “Click to LOOK INSIDE!” feature. I’m guessing Amazon charges for that, but it might be worth it – especially if you think the quality of your writing is a strong differentiator in a crowded market with wary readers.

]]> By: Henry Baum http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/blog/2009/06/25/a-question-of-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-1198 Henry Baum Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:30:35 +0000 http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/?p=2365#comment-1198 OK, the Amazon example is a good one, but when it comes to self-publishing people then start making egregious claims, like: all Amazon reviews are obviously meaningless. No, that's just one example. It is a shame that Amazon reviews are getting diluted, but there's not much you can do to counter people getting their friends to write reviews. Readers just should know that they've got to look at sources like SFReader to get a more objective sense of a book. In short, look at real review sources, not just a place where anybody can set up an account. SPR aims to be one of those. OK, the Amazon example is a good one, but when it comes to self-publishing people then start making egregious claims, like: all Amazon reviews are obviously meaningless. No, that’s just one example. It is a shame that Amazon reviews are getting diluted, but there’s not much you can do to counter people getting their friends to write reviews. Readers just should know that they’ve got to look at sources like SFReader to get a more objective sense of a book. In short, look at real review sources, not just a place where anybody can set up an account. SPR aims to be one of those.

]]> By: Merrilee http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/blog/2009/06/25/a-question-of-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-1173 Merrilee Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:41:19 +0000 http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/?p=2365#comment-1173 Authonomy is a perfect example, but so is Amazon. For a case study, let's look at Talismans of Puissance, a self-pubbed book. On Amazon, 11 glowing 5-star reviews. http://www.amazon.com/Talismans-Puissance-Justin-Hinks/dp/1403349096/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top But read the two 1-star reviews. Then read what SFReader had to say: http://www.sfreader.com/read_review.asp?book=346 The amazon revew is are a perfect example of an untrustworthy review, most of them filled with hyperbole, and most of them from posters who have only posted the one review - a sure sign of friends roped in to 'help'. I've read online fiction with 5-star ratings that are appalling; badly crafted, rambling, plotless horrors. But if the author has enough friends, they can bump the story up in the ratings to get read by more people. Because that's how most sites work; ratings = visibility. Quality is moot if you can't get your work seen. And no, I haven't self-pubbed, nor do I plan to, so no sour grapes. I respect those who produce quality self-pubbed work, but it's a struggle to find them sometimes. Authonomy is a perfect example, but so is Amazon. For a case study, let’s look at Talismans of Puissance, a self-pubbed book.

On Amazon, 11 glowing 5-star reviews. http://www.amazon.com/Talismans-Puissance-Justin-Hinks/dp/1403349096/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

But read the two 1-star reviews. Then read what SFReader had to say: http://www.sfreader.com/read_review.asp?book=346

The amazon revew is are a perfect example of an untrustworthy review, most of them filled with hyperbole, and most of them from posters who have only posted the one review – a sure sign of friends roped in to ‘help’.

I’ve read online fiction with 5-star ratings that are appalling; badly crafted, rambling, plotless horrors. But if the author has enough friends, they can bump the story up in the ratings to get read by more people. Because that’s how most sites work; ratings = visibility.

Quality is moot if you can’t get your work seen. And no, I haven’t self-pubbed, nor do I plan to, so no sour grapes. I respect those who produce quality self-pubbed work, but it’s a struggle to find them sometimes.

]]> By: Henry Baum http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/blog/2009/06/25/a-question-of-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-1171 Henry Baum Fri, 17 Jul 2009 02:11:54 +0000 http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/?p=2365#comment-1171 I agree with this, but I'd like to see some examples of what you're talking about. A friend might not be able to fake a truly thoughtful review of a book. Take a look at the review of Threshold - Steven Reynolds isn't a friend of Bonnie Kozek's and that's exactly what an authentic good review looks like. You say "the books that make it to the top now are written by the authors with the loudest voice." Where are you talking about? Authonomy and places like that? Yeah, that's an imperfect review system that's more of a popularity contest, but some of the onus is on the bookbuyer to be able to gauge what's an authentically good review or someone making a sales pitch. I agree with this, but I’d like to see some examples of what you’re talking about. A friend might not be able to fake a truly thoughtful review of a book. Take a look at the review of Threshold – Steven Reynolds isn’t a friend of Bonnie Kozek’s and that’s exactly what an authentic good review looks like. You say “the books that make it to the top now are written by the authors with the loudest voice.” Where are you talking about? Authonomy and places like that? Yeah, that’s an imperfect review system that’s more of a popularity contest, but some of the onus is on the bookbuyer to be able to gauge what’s an authentically good review or someone making a sales pitch.

]]> By: Merrilee http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/blog/2009/06/25/a-question-of-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-1186 Merrilee Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:27:59 +0000 http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/?p=2365#comment-1186 "Personally, I’d like to see self-publishing become more of a community that’s supporting each other’s efforts with less suspicion about people’s motives." A fine sentiment, however, ultimately damaging to all concerned. As a reader, there is nothing worse than reading a glowing review, rushing off to buy the book and then finding that the reviewer was a little too complimentary and the book below par. And when the reviewer is a friend or colleague of the author, you can bet the review is going to be less than truthful if the book is poor. I think ethics are doubly important in the world of self-publishing. Self-pubbed authors are already behind the 8-ball in terms of reputation. There are good books out there, but also far too many poorly written, self-indulgent mistakes, and even more issues where the writer's colleagues post a glowing but undeserved review. It's got to stop. The books that make it to the top now are written by the authors with the loudest voice, or the most friends willing to pimp it, no matter what the quality. Oh, it happens with books in the bookstore as well, don't get me wrong. But they don't come with a tarnished reputation attached. “Personally, I’d like to see self-publishing become more of a community that’s supporting each other’s efforts with less suspicion about people’s motives.”

A fine sentiment, however, ultimately damaging to all concerned.

As a reader, there is nothing worse than reading a glowing review, rushing off to buy the book and then finding that the reviewer was a little too complimentary and the book below par. And when the reviewer is a friend or colleague of the author, you can bet the review is going to be less than truthful if the book is poor.

I think ethics are doubly important in the world of self-publishing. Self-pubbed authors are already behind the 8-ball in terms of reputation. There are good books out there, but also far too many poorly written, self-indulgent mistakes, and even more issues where the writer’s colleagues post a glowing but undeserved review.

It’s got to stop. The books that make it to the top now are written by the authors with the loudest voice, or the most friends willing to pimp it, no matter what the quality.

Oh, it happens with books in the bookstore as well, don’t get me wrong. But they don’t come with a tarnished reputation attached.

]]> By: Zoe Winters http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/blog/2009/06/25/a-question-of-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-1196 Zoe Winters Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:48:07 +0000 http://www.selfpublishingreview.com/?p=2365#comment-1196 Fair enough, Henry. Fair enough, Henry.

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