Not Your Father’s Self-Publishing
Things in self-publishing have changed a lot just in the past couple of years. Awareness of, and respect for, self-publishing has grown to the point that it’s virtually gone mainstream. Yet based on some posts and comments I’ve seen around the web in the wake of the Harlequin Horizons/DellArte Press rumpus, it’s clear to me there’s still an awful lot of misinformation being spread around the web about self-publishing in comparison to mainstream publishing.
The Harsh Realities of Being A Mainstream-Published Novelist
The novelist’s traditional path to authorship is common enough knowledge. First, you spend months or years writing and workshopping your manuscript. Next comes months or years of querying for an agent. After that follows months of your agent trying to sell the manuscript, and for all but about 5% of aspiring authors, the answer is “no.” As for the 5%, their novels were chosen more on the basis of broad appeal and marketability than the quality of writing. But however disappointed the 95% are, the 5% may yet be more disappointed still once the initial rush of I’m-Getting-Published wears off.
Author advances are down and mainstream publishers don’t offer much in the way of promotional support to the great majority of their authors anymore. For the most part, debut authors find themselves on the hook to arrange and finance their own book tours, bear the burden of effort and expense for their author platform themselves, and if they want a publicist, pay for that themselves, too. Okay, so maybe they’re not getting much money up front and have to do most of their own promotion, but the 5% of novelists will still get the sales boost and status that come from having their books on physical store shelves, right? Well, sort of.
Turnover in brick-and-mortar bookstores is high and shelf space is shrinking all the time as more and more store real estate is given over to games, stationery, cosmetics, gifts, music, movies, and the like. It’s gotten to the point where landing a mainstream publishing contract is no longer even any guarantee of seeing your book shelved at your local Borders or Barnes & Noble. Among those that are shelved, with few exceptions, any newly-released trade book that fails to make the NYT bestseller list will be pulled from physical chain booksellers within three months to make way for the next batch of hopefuls. All sales must then be driven either online or through small, independent booksellers, which requires significantly more effort on the author’s part.
Woe betide the author who fails to put in the effort, since publishers will be looking long and hard at his first novel’s earnings when deciding whether or not to publish his second. Among the novels of that 5% which made it to print, only about 20% (or less, depending on who you ask) earn back the author’s advance, never mind turning a profit. If you do the math, you’ll find the authors in this group account for .001%—that’s one-hundredth of 1%—of the larger group of aspiring novelists who all started down the road to authorship together. Okay, but some of those books earn back the advance and a little profit too, and some authors do make the NYT list and end up being very successful, right? Well, sort of.
The Dan Browns, JK Rowlings and Stephanie Meyerses of the world aren’t just successful authors, they’re worldwide cultural phenomena around whom entire cottage industries of movies and merchandise have sprung up. So let’s just all agree they’re the rarified rockstars of lit, and deal with the realities for most mainstream-published authors, those who aren’t household names.
Thanks to the generous and brave posts of authors such as Lynne Viehl, Kimberly Pauley, Saundra Mitchell and others, something truly shocking has finally come to light: most successful mainstream-published novelists (meaning those who have been repeatedly published), including those who hit the NYT list multiple times, net an annual income on par with that of a fast food restaurant manager. Very prolific authors who can manage to get, and keep, multiple books in print every year fare better, but it’s the rare author who can produce quality work at that pace year after year. I don’t know what’s more jaw-dropping: that most mainstream-published authors earn so little (even those whose books hit the NYT list!), or the conspiracy of silence that’s kept this fact under wraps for so long. From Lynne Viehl’s post:
On the statement my publisher reports sales of 7,550 copies and returns of 10,812 copies. The publisher released credits of 21,140 copies or $13,512.69 from reserves held against returns, but at the same time reserved credits against another 13,790 copies or $8,814.57, which reduces the credit adjustment to 7,350 copies or $4698.12.
Total sales for the novel now stand at 89,142 copies, minus returns of 27,479, for net sales of 61,663 copies. My credited earnings from this statement was $2,434.38 with no money due; it will probably take another six months to a year for the novel to earn out the last of my $50,000.00 advance.
So how much money have I made from my Times bestseller? Depending on the type of sale, I gross 6-8% of the cover price of $7.99. After paying taxes, commission to my agent and covering my expenses, my net profit on the book currently stands at $24,517.36, which is actually pretty good since on average I generally net about 30-40% of my advance. Unless something triggers an unexpected spike in my sales, I don’t expect to see any additional profit from this book coming in for at least another year or two.
Okay, but all those mainstream-published novelists still get the status that comes from being able to say you’re a Published Author with a Literary Agent and a Big Publisher, right? Yes, they definitely do. But the question of whether the status bump alone is worth all the years of time, effort, sacrifice, rejection and heartache that went into becoming a published novelist is well worth considering.
The Self-Publishing Alternative
The self-publishing stigma is losing its hold thanks to recent revelations about, and current challenges of, the trade publishing business. Between competing ebook formats, the battles over ebook pricing and DRM, emerging all-digital imprints, the Google Books quagmire, falling profits, bookstore closures and staff downsizings, it seems the future of trade publishing is murky at best. New ideas and new business models are needed, and self-publishing has become just one among many possible approaches.
Is it any surprise that authors as successful and well-known as Stephen King, Piers Anthony and JA Konrath have self-published, or are self-publishing? Konrath has found he earns far more on his self-published Kindle editions than on the Kindle editions released by his publisher, and I don’t doubt many more authors will soon be following his lead.
I’m not saying self-publishing is a slide on ice in comparison to the mainstream path. Many self-published books are of poor quality in terms of content or production—but so are many mainstream books. Most self-published books never earn a profit—but neither do most mainstream books. Self-published authors have to do all their own marketing and promotion—but so do most mainstream-published authors. Most self-published authors will never make a living off their books—but neither will most mainstream-published authors.
Self-published authors don’t get advance checks, but neither must they invest large sums out of pocket to publish. There are numerous Print On Demand service providers that don’t charge up-front fees, authors can publish to the Kindle for free using Amazon’s Digital Text Platform tool, and they can publish in multiple other ebook formats for free via Smashwords, Scribd and other outlets.
And given that self-published authors have access to the same distribution channels, quality production methods, marketing and promotion methods, and audiences as their mainstream-published peers, it should be very clear by now that the choice of whether or not to self-publish is, to quote Guy LeCharles Gonzalez, a business decision. Period.
December 7, 2009 in Features, Lead Story by April L. Hamilton
I see that you’ve mentioned me in this article but I think you missed my point entirely. I am a debut YA author and, quite frankly, I’m very happy with the numbers my mainstream published novel has pulled in. My publisher is too; they are publishing a sequel next year. The difference? I have realistic expectations for what a FIRST book can bring. And if you read the comments on my post, you’d have noticed that Ellen Hopkins posted her numbers and I have to tell you, I would be quite happy living off of what she pulls in (and her husband has retired). And she does that on one book a year — and she’s only about 5 years out in her career (i.e. since her first book). There’s no telling what my income will look like once I have a few books under my belt, though I’m not expecting Rowling or Meyer or even Ellen’s numbers. If my current numbers stay strong, I could quite possibly live off of my earnings as a writer once my third book is out. Personally, I don’t think that’s too shabby. I don’t know a single self published author of three books who can say the same thing (actually, I don’t know *any* self published author that can say the same thing).
I completely disagree with your standing in this article. Self published authors DO NOT have access to all of the same distribution channels or other resources that traditionally published authors do. I know a great deal of self-pubbed authors (I’ve been a YA reviewer since 1998) both personally and professionally. The majority of self published books don’t go anywhere. Yes, it is the right choice for some. But to say that it’s just a business decision is disingenuous at best.
And you also missed the point that Viehl’s books are MASS MARKET PAPERBACKS. There’s a huge difference between hardcover, trade paper, and mass market paper earnings.
You’re putting KONRATH in the leagues of Stephen King and Piers Anthony?!?
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Oh, man, if you hadn’t lost me by that point (and, actually, you had), that would have sealed the deal.
Kimberly -
It’s a good thing that you went into publishing with realistic expectations, but most aspiring authors *don’t* have realistic expectations. There’s this pervasive perception out there that if you can sell a manuscript to a big, mainstream publisher, you can quit your day job and you’ve set with a career in authorship with longevity. Of course, neither assumption is necessarily true.
Regarding mass-market paperbacks vs. other formats, your point is well taken but it’s worth pointing out, while the format in which your book is released does definitely affect your royalties, most aspiring authors don’t realize there’s a difference between royalties on a mass-market paperback vs. a trade paperback and therefore won’t be knowledgeable enough to try and negotiate “up” to a trade paperback release if their publisher is offering a mass-market contract. Even if they *do* attempt that negotiation, the answer may be “no”. Also, since it’s cheaper to produce and distribute, a mass-market paperback release is the reality that increasing numbers of debut novelists must face as trade publishers look for ways to decrease their risk and upfront investment.
Regarding distribution, nowadays self-publishers can get their books listed in all the same catalogs and outlets (Bowker’s Books In Print, Library of Congress, Ingram, Nielsen, etc.) as mainstream-published books. Some of these distribution channels have only recently become available, so that may be the reason why your friends’ past experience doesn’t jibe with what I’m saying here. It’s important to note, having a book in those catalogs and listings doesn’t guarantee they’ll actually be *stocked* by brick-and-mortar stores or libraries. In fact, it’s the rare self-published book that *is*. However, as I point out in the article, even mainstream-published books disappear from brick-and-mortar stores pretty quickly, so in my opinion that early, approximately 90-day brick-and-mortar store presence is hardly crucial to a book’s overall success over its lifetime in print.
And once again, let me be clear: I’m not saying, nor have I ever said, self-publishing is the right, nor better, choice for every book. As I concluded in the article, the choice of whether or not to self-publish is a business decision. I’ll add that it’s a business decision that each author must make for him- or herself on a manuscript-by-manuscript basis. All I’m saying is that in making an informed decision of whether or not to self-publish, aspiring authors need to know what they can realistically expect from *either* path (self-pub vs. mainstream).
I did not mean to imply that you, Ms. Viehl nor any other mainstream-published author is dissatisfied with the proceeds from their books. The point I’m making is simply that the level of proceeds most published authors can expect to receive is *far* less than most aspiring authors expect it to be, and that’s important information that needs to be disseminated.
I mean, if you set your cap on becoming a bank manager with the expectation that you’d be earning something like $50k a year, and everyone you knew believed bank managers earn around $50k per year, but then when you actually *became* a bank manager (after years of educating yourself, hard work, sacrifice and paying your dues), you learned that most bank managers only earn about $20k per year, you’d be pretty shocked and disappointed. This is the same type of scenario because most aspiring authors expect that if and when they “make it” into publication, they’ll be earning their living that way. Given more accurate information, plenty of us will still opt to head down that road, but at least we’ll go into it fully informed and with realistic expectations—which, as you point out, are the key to avoiding disappointment.
I have to say, I’m baffled by the conclusions you took from my post. Because I’ve been a fanwriter for 15+ years. In fact, I was an incredibly *popular* fanwriter, in an incredibly popular fandom, and even then- I maxxed out at 600-800 readers.
My book is a very small book, with a very modest marketing plan- and they STILL gave away over a thousand of my books, to reviewers and press, and bloggers, and awards committees and more. My publishers GAVE AWAY more copies of my book than I had readers in a self-published model. They’ve shipped almost 8000 – a number I couldn’t possibly hope to hit with a self-publishing model. I don’t know about you, but I can’t afford 1000 copies of my own book to give away, even though I did still do marketing for my book.
So you know, I’m all for self-publishing. I’ve written small books for my friends and my family, and been very happy to self-publish them. Obviously, I’m a big fan of giving away my work as a fan writer as well. But the exposure and distribution available to self-publishers is a tiny, tiny fraction of the exposure that your book will get, even if you’re a midlist author in a niche genre like I am.
To say- hey, you’re not going to make a million dollars as a traditionally published author is the absolute truth. But to say that self-publishing has the exact same advantages and possibilities isn’t. Maybe one day- but that day is not now.
Quentin -
I include Konrath because he’s a current, multiply-published and commercially successful author. His experience is relevant, as he’s precisely where most aspiring novelists hope to be if and when they are published by the mainstream.
Agreed — but, honestly, that’s the author’s responsibility. To research and learn all of these things. If any prospective author does even the most basic research and joins organizations such as SCBWI (or children’s and YA lit), they would learn these types of things. And they would have realistic expectations. There’s no excuse for not doing your homework.
Perhaps think of it like professional football. We all hear about their massive salaries, right? Well, not all professional football players make those types of salaries. Just the “big” names. There are second string and third string guys, right? And the guys that might spend almost their entire career on the bench.
Not that I’m saying a midlist author is “on the bench” — just that trusting the stories in the media without doing any research is a silly thing to do and will always lead you to disappointment.
And there’s a lot more subjectivity to what an author makes versus a bank manager or anyone in a corporate job. While a bank manager’s pay does depend on their skills, an author’s earnings are MUCH more dependent on them (not to mention a lot of other things that a bank manager doesn’t have to worry about — like audience reach and placement in bookstores, etc. etc.)
At any rate, we’ll have to agree to disagree. In my own personal experience, I haven’t seen self-publishing work in an author’s best interests.
Saundra-
I think you misunderstand my conclusions. Nowhere in the article do I say self-publishing has all the same advantages and possibilities as mainstream pub. Two advantages the mainstream has over self-pub are stated right in the article: self-pubbers don’t get an advance and they don’t get the status that comes with being mainstream-pubbed.
However, newly-informed that the advantages of mainstream pub aren’t as great as aspiring authors have been led to believe (e.g., fame, fortune, glamorous book tours financed by the publisher, promo campaigns financed by the publisher, reviews in all the high-profile magazines and newspapers, quitting your day job, having an ongoing career in authorship once your first book is published, etc.), I think many aspiring authors will recognize that if their primary goal is to reach and build a readership, mainstream pub may not be the best way for them to achieve that goal.
I say *may not be* because again, there is no one-size-fits-all solution here and different people have different priorities and aspirations.
When you say Stephen King was self-published, are you referring to “Dave’s Rag” that was talked about in his book On Writing? Because something you contributed to as a child should count for life experience, yes, but he got his big break selling Carrie to a trad publisher. I don’t think King is a good example of how to make money at SP at all. Even if he did SP work now, he kind of has a huge name to draw off of by this point and doesn’t have near as much to worry about in terms of exposure/credibility/investment capital as a debut SP novelist. He’s an inspiration to me as a writer and encourages me to work hard at my craft, but other than that… I don’t think he has much of a place in your argument.
Kimberly -
When authors began going public with their royalty statements, I can honestly say that I and every other self-pubber and aspiring author I know was totally shocked.
I can also say that the mainstream-published novelists with whom I’m currently acquainted were also taken totally by surprise at the financial and sales realities they faced following publication. I’ve had countless emails and private messages from mainstream-published authors who are not household names saying that what I’ve posted here and elsewhere on the topic is right on target, and they wish they’d known what to expect before they signed the contract. Many express great gratitude toward the authors who are going public, since their courageous sharing will allow more aspiring authors to go into mainstream pub fully informed, as they wish they had been.
Make no mistake – most (probably all!) *still* would’ve signed. But they wouldn’t have built up all sorts of unrealistic hopes and dreams around that contract, they wouldn’t have felt the huge let-down that comes of expecting to quit your day job and then learning you can’t (a disappointment to which most of us can relate, if we’ve ever thought we were going to get a job we applied for and then learned someone else was hired). Also, if this stuff were common knowledge, no newly-published author would have the embarrassing experience of answering to well-meaning friends and relatives who say things like, “So, I guess you’re pretty well-off now, huh?” and assume the author’s financial picture has suddenly had a major change for the better.
If you knew exactly what to expect going in, I’m sure you didn’t experience these disappointments. But I also think you’re an unusual case, based on my experience and those of my acquaintances.
Irk -
No, I’m referring to his experiments with self-publishing a serialized novel on his website a few years back.
Kimberly -
You say that aspiring authors can learn all they need to know by joining organizations and such, but isn’t it true that most published authors are reticent to share their financial details—as is just about anyone, author or not, since it’s not considered to be an acceptable subject for polite conversation—?
Even published authors I know well aren’t forthcoming with this information, and I’m not asking them for it because I think it would be rude to do so. Really, I can’t imagine how else I would’ve learned what I have from the recent disclosures some authors have chosen to make, coupled with the private communications I’ve had from authors on the subject. Those authors still aren’t providing specifics—nor would I ask them to—, they’re just saying that their experience is right in line with those of publicly-disclosing authors.
There’s a wealth of general information out there, though not very much specific information. I will definitely grant you that. That was one of the reasons I posted my first statement. BUT anyone who does their research will easily find information about average advances and the like. When I said I went in with realistic expectations, it was from doing exactly that kind of research.
It’s pretty similar to any job search — I don’t know exactly how much my neighbor makes, but I know a general range.
I realize that you aren’t exactly neutral, but this last line actually made me laugh out loud:
And given that self-published authors have access to the same distribution channels, quality production methods, marketing and promotion methods, and audiences as their mainstream-published peers…
What…really? Because, to be honest, I have never, ever, seen a self published book in Barnes and Noble or Borders. Never.
Beyond that, your article makes it sound like self publishing is the same quality as traditional publishing. And it’s not. Anyone who’s picked up a book off of Lulu or Amazon can tell you there are a lot of people who work with a writer to hone their craft that do not appear in self publishing. Copyeditors, publicists, professional artists and sales teams…these are all things that go into making a trade paperback such high quality.
The biggest person you neglect to mention is an editor. Sure, you can hire a freelance editor to look over your pages, but is it really comparable to someone who is going to work with you to hone your work, and help you lay the foundation for the next book? You talk about this as a business decision, but folks who want to be in publishing for the long haul need to think about professional development as well as the bottom line. And the truth is, without working with people who know what works and what doesn’t, it’s highly unlikely you’ll grow as a writer.
And any successful writer can tell you that becoming a better writer is more important than a few hundred dollars here or there. Period.
Kimberly -
Knowing the typical range of advances isn’t terribly helpful, since every contract is negotiated individually and what one author gets has no bearing on what another gets. I mean, I can’t go into a contract negotiation saying that since Joe Writer got $10,000 for his novel I should get the same. Well, I guess I *can*, but I won’t get a bigger advance on that basis. Moreover, advances for debut authors have been pretty dramatically cut just in recent years, so a lot of what’s out there on the ‘net is stale-dated information.
Also, while it’s pretty easy to figure what your agent’s 15% cut of your advance will be, or what amount of tax you’ll need to pay on your advance, it’s returns and publisher hold-backs against future returns that take some of the biggest, and least anticipated, bites out of a published author’s income. These are two items I’ve seen discussed online in general terms, but until I saw actual figures from real life, I had no understanding of how big an impact they can have.
“No, I’m referring to his experiments with self-publishing a serialized novel on his website a few years back.”
Which kind of negates your point, doesn’t it? Didn’t he stop posting the serialization after a few installments? Isn’t it still unfinished after several years? I’m trying to remember if he included it, in its entirety, in any of his collections, but Wikipedia failed me there.
Regardless, even if you consider The Plant an example of self-publishing (I think that’s stretching the term, truthfully. It was more like he blogged a short story at a time when blogs were just becoming popular. And sure, blogs are sort of self-publishing, but it’s not like he bound it and got it an ISBN and tried to get it into bookstores), it’s arguable that not even Stephen King managed to do it successfully.
Publishing of any kind, self- or otherwise, is a business decision, or should be. The problem is that too many authors eschew business (I’m not familiar with the gentleman you quote in your final paragraph, but were I searching for support for claims I had made about business, I’m not sure he would have been my first citation), equating the thought of cash for product to a form of selling out. As for information: it’s not hard to come by. Try John Scalzi, Tobias Buckell, or Cory Doctorow to name just a few writers who are rather transparent not just about their advances and royalty statements but also their experiences with bookstores/sellers, the ways they publish, and with whom.
“I can also say that the mainstream-published novelists with whom I’m currently acquainted were also taken totally by surprise at the financial and sales realities they faced following publication.”
It sounds to me like your acquaintances haven’t done their homework. Just from reading online, I tend to not only know who has sold what to where lately, but also for how much and what the standard deviation from an average first advance is. Hell, googling “average first advance for novel” yields Justine Larbalestier’s highly informative blog on just that topic and that it’s roughly between $5000 and $10000, give or take (http://justinelarbalestier.com/blog/2004/12/24/average-first-novel-advances/). Subsequent links corroborate the number decently, and also highlight exceptions.
Point is, any authors “shocked” by the numbers probably didn’t do their homework. And if, as you note, self-publishing (or as I extend, any publishing) is a business decision, I think that puts most authors, self-published or otherwise, at even more of a disadvantage, considering how few know anything about business.
Sure, self-published authors can be listed by a distributor, but you’re openly discounting the very real, very important influence on a book’s sales that having physical books in a bookstore has on a book’s sales, even if it *is* for only 3 months. Books are a browsing kind of purchase–people like to browse the shelves, pick up the book and browse the text, etc. Having your book sit on bookshelves is HUGE, and it’s the kind of treatment that a minuscule percentage of self-published books get. Bookstore presence isn’t something to just dismiss with a wave of your hand–a listing in a huge distributor’s catalog is NOT the same as having your book actually ordered into stores.
Now, there are ways around this, but it requires a lot of publicity and a lot of legwork. It really isn’t comparable.
April, Thanks for a sobering take on publishing today. I see those who are already mainstream published expressing their contempt as Ms. Pauley has. Apparently, once one is on the “gravy train” it’s easy to look down upon the rest of us who are yet to be published by a “mainstream publisher”. Sad, but true. You’re a credit to your art, Ms. Hamilton, for saying what needs to be said.
Philip — I did not feel I was expressing contempt. I’m sorry you feel that way. I know many self pubbed authors, including some who write very admirably. I don’t look down on any writer, published or not. Why do you think I posted about my earnings in the first place? Because I feel that we ought to support each other and be as open as we can be in order that people do have the information that they need. Perhaps you might want to click through and read my posts on the subject rather than jumping to judge.
But I do think that this article can be very misleading and discouraging to writers (when many of us are so easily discouraged as it is) — please check out the other comments. I couldn’t agree more with Stacy or Will or Saundra–not to mention the wealth of other articles out there on the web.
And seriously? Traditional publishing is not a gravy train. Being a writer is a business and a job like any other business. It’s work. This is a hard, hard thing to choose as a career and honestly, I feel it is more of a calling than something people just think “Oh, maybe I’ll be a writer. Won’t that be fun?” You have to want it. And even “wanting” it isn’t always enough.
Most of the self pubbed authors I know whose writing I admire could probably have been traditionally published but they gave up. Publishing is s-l-o-w. It takes a long, long time, no matter what some news articles would have you believe. I hate it every time I see some reporter talking about so-and-so who got a 6 figure deal while still in college on a book they haven’t finished yet. That stuff is incredibly rare, but it’s the type of thing that gets hyped in the news. Most of the authors I know have spent years and years working on their craft. It is not something that happens overnight.
Kimberly,
Just one point, I know you’re talking about your personal friends who have self-published and so maybe their reason for self-publishing is because they “gave up” on traditional publishing. I can say honestly that once I learned all the realities of traditional publishing that I didn’t want any part of it. Low advances (compared to what you think you’ll get as a kid), miniscule marketing (and for most authors this is true), being stuck on a midlist you might get dropped from only to never get another publisher, complete loss of control over your content, your cover, your title, basically the book itself… those are not things I want for my life.
While it is true that I may not reach as many readers as a trad-published author, that doesn’t matter to me. Since I studied self-publishing quite extensively before I hopped onto that path, I know I have to sell 1/5th to 1/4th as many books as a trad published author of the same type of book (trade paperback), to make the same amount of money. Will I reach THAT pinnacle? Well I don’t know, but with a backlist and a strong marketing plan working within all the distribution options available to me, yes, I believe I can do that.
There are plenty of self-publishing authors that have done that. Many of them you’ve now heard of because they sold so well on their own, they got picked up by a larger publisher. Others you haven’t heard of because they started their own imprint and you just don’t know them. For example, a woman named Connie Shelton has been self publishing her own mystery series for years, even before POD became popular, under the name “intrigue press” and has gone on to publish others as well. (And if you think she had to publish others to make a bigger profit that would be untrue. Since she has to pay her authors a royalty and if she was just focused on writing and publishing her own books she’d have an even stronger backlist.)
I fully intend to be one of the self-published authors that can make genuine money doing it. And while someday I would consider an offer from a larger publisher if my hard work earned me such a thing and the offer was good, that isn’t my goal or purpose in self-publishing. It would be a cool bonus, but it’s not why I do it. (Sort of like how you’d probably like to be a famous author but not being one wont’ stop you from publishing.)
But then, I’m told by many of my writing friends that I’m not a “normal writer.” They call me a “publishing geek.” I love publishing. I LOVE the business side. Profit and Loss statements are sexy to me. I like ISBN numbers and all the minutiae I have to know to make publishing decisions. I like being in full 100% creative control of every aspect (which doesn’t mean I don’t know when I need to hire out. For example I hired an amazing cover artist for my first print release coming out in March.)
Here’s my cover: http://zoewinters.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/bloodlust-frontcvr1.jpg (this isn’t the high-res version so there is a little bit of “jaggedy” look on part of the woman.)
Anyway just thought I’d throw that out there. I know you weren’t saying it exactly, and you may not even have meant it, but in case you didn’t know, not every self-published author does it “as a hobby,” “to sell to family and friends,” “or because they gave up on traditional publishing.” For some of us self-publishing truly is an art and a business and it can be done well.
If self-publishing can in ANY way work as a viable business model (and I’ve seen it done before so I know it can be done), then i intend to make it happen.
Thanks for listening, sorry for rambling.
stacy -
I think I pretty clearly acknowledged—stated explicitly even, more than once in the comments above—that being listed in a distributor’s catalog isn’t any guarantee of having your book stocked in stores. However, I disagree with you that brick-and-mortar store presence is terribly important, unless you’re one of those lucky few authors who’s going to get a big promotional push from your publisher. I blogged about it here:
http://www.publetariat.com/sell/big-chain-bookstore-deathwatch
This other article, tweeted by Publishers Lunch, addresses the issue of publishers “buying” prime brick-and-mortar bookstore real estate, which diminishes brick-and-mortar store rewards for authors who *don’t* get any of that bought real estate:
http://bit.ly/4nEZ91
Will -
I quoted Guy LeCharles Gonzalez not because I imagine he’s the most influential person in publishing, but because I realized I happened to be re-writing his words verbatim and didn’t want to take credit for his words.
RE: King’s experiment, yes, it was a failure. However, he did it at a time when ebook readership was pretty much in its infancy, when there was no such thing as a Kindle, Nook or Sony ereader. It was also a time when what few dedicated ereading devices there were, like the Rocket Ebook Reader, were very expensive and reliable, well-stocked sources for ebooks were catch-as-catch-can. Just as I labeled it, it was an experiment, not a celebrated success. However, more recently, authors are enjoying much greater rewards from epublishing, podcasting and publishing via POD. To dismiss my entire post on the basis of a failed ebook experiment in the time of ebooks’ infancy is pretty surprising coming from someone as generally savvy as yourself where publishing is concerned.
Zoe — I can definitely agree with you and I salute you. There’s definitely a place for self-publishing, as Saundra also mentioned. You’ve done your homework and you chose the path that was right for you. A lot of it comes down to goals and you’re obviously realistic about yours and what your expectations are and what your hurdles are. Every writer is different and every path to publication is different as well.
And April — as far as only getting “prime” real estate in a bookstore if your publisher buys it — that’s isn’t always true. I’ve had plenty of endcaps and my publisher (which is on the small side) did not pay for it (and while I’m very happy with what they have done, I don’t think you could call it a “huge promotional push” like you might hear about big publishers doing for “big name books”). I’ve done okay on Amazon, but I wouldn’t have had the (moderate, but still growing) success I’ve had without being in bookstores — including especially Indies, who put my book on the Kids Indie NEXT list last year. B&N has also been good to me. To me, at least, being in bookstores was terribly important. Teens especially might look online, but they shop offline (unless their parents are buying with their credit card). Perhaps it isn’t as important for those who publish for adults; I can’t speak to that.
Kimberly -
The referenced article about buying store real estate primarily focused on the large displays at the front of the typical chain, brick-and-mortar store; those are ALL bought and paid for, according to the article.
As for indie booksellers, it’s interesting that you bring them up because they’re one of the few brick-and-mortar outlets that tend to be receptive to self-published books. I’ll acknowledge that a self-published author has do his own salesmanship there, he can’t rely on a publishing-house sales agent to get his book stocked, but my experience and research has shown that it’s an outlet that’s very much accessible to self-published authors provided their book is of high quality and is a good match for the content mix of the store (e.g., a mystery book for an indie bookseller specializing in mystery/crime books).
Irregardless of Ms. Pauley’s reply, I stand by my remarks. She feels it’s necessary to lecture those of us who haven’t been picked up by the mainstream publishers. That arrgance is unmistakable. The contempt is clear and obvious.
All -
I’m entirely willing to discuss the point of this article, which is simply that the mainstream path isn’t all it’s built up to be in most aspiring authors’ minds, and that the self-pub path, while challenging, can be an effective means for an aspiring author to reach his goals. But that’s really all I’m looking to discuss here, I’m not interested in going off on tangents based on things being read into the post that aren’t there.
As I have repeatedly said, I do not claim that one path is superior to the other in general, and I have repeatedly stated that it’s a decision to be made by each author on a manuscript-by-manuscript basis. Neither have I said self-pub is inherently better than the mainstream route to publication: just that it’s a viable one that can, and does, work for some authors and some books.
I stopped trying to convince the anti-self-pub contingent of the value of self-pub a long time ago after concluding that to do so is largely a waste of my time and effort, which are better spent in more productive pursuits. I’m not going to respond to any more comments or questions that are essentially aimed at questioning the validity of self-pub overall. That’s not what this post was about, and those who believe self-pub is a losing proposition are entitled to their opinion as I am to mine. It’s just not a discussion I feel is valuable or relevant to the post at hand.
I don’t think a single one of the commenters who’ve dissented has explicitly disagreed with my overall assertion, which again, is simply that the mainstream path isn’t all it’s built up to be in most aspiring authors’ minds, and that the self-pub path, while challenging, can be an effective means to reach an aspiring author’s goals.
I’m not anti-self-pub and I absolutely agree that it is the right path for some people. I am not trying to lecture anyone. The only reason I commented at all is because Ms. Hamilton referenced me explicitly within her post and in a way that I did not agree with (and, as I stated above, I’m perfectly happy to let us agree to disagree). I imagine that if someone referenced *you* within an article to support their thesis in a way in which you did not agree, you would also feel compelled to comment. In particular, she said “Thanks to the generous and brave posts of authors such as Lynne Viehl, Kimberly Pauley, Saundra Mitchell and others, something truly shocking has finally come to light: most successful mainstream-published novelists (meaning those who have been repeatedly published), including those who hit the NYT list multiple times, net an annual income on par with that of a fast food restaurant manager.”
In particular, I did not feel that my numbers (or Saundra’s) should be used as any kind of comparison to Viehl’s because the numbers I posted were for a DEBUT (not repeatedly published) author in the YA field with a hardcover initial offering, nor am I on the NYT list. Viehl’s numbers were for her 7th or 8th novel, which was only released in mass market paperback format.
If my numbers stay consistent in their growth and I continue to be published with a hardcover initial offering with a TRADE paperback followup, I will see potentially see much higher $$ numbers than Viehl’s, even if she continues to be on the NYT list and I never see the list at all. I have no idea what my numbers will be like after I am “repeatedly published” and on my (fingers crossed) 7th or 8th book, but I do not think that Ms. Hamilton’s post is clear that mine or Saundra’s numbers can not and should not be compared to Ms. Viehl’s on a one-to-one basis. We were offered up as an example in a way that I don’t think logically falls from the numbers.
I have, in fact, always been a supporter of self published authors. For over ten years I have run one of the leading YA lit review sites on the Internet and we are one of the *very* few that accept in self published books for review. I can arguably say that I’ve read more self published books than most people out in the world at large, including most self published authors. There have even been people that I’ve directed towards self publishing after talking with them and learning what their goals were.
But I’m with April in that this is pointless. People who have made up their minds will read comments on either side with their own take.
And April — yes, I agree, it all comes down to what the author’s goal is. Self publishing is a viable alternative, depending on the author’s goals and expectations.
There is, no doubt, a place for self-publishing. Mostly, IMHO, it is a place for niche publications. As for trying to reach a mainstream mystery or romance market, probably not, which is why RWA and MWA have chosen to close the door to Harlequin and its authors. Philip, this is not to scorn writers who have yet to be published. As a regional adviser for the Society of Children’s Writers and Illustrators (SCBWI), I give countless unpaid hours to mentor unpublished authors and illustrators, despite my relative success in this business. Success, which although it seems “quick” (because my first novel published with Simon & Schuster only five years ago), came with patience, growing my craft, focusing my writing, finding a unique voice, etc. That was many more years of WORK.
While there are, doubtless, self-pubbed authors who are willing to work, a large percentage are not. They would rather shortcut their way to publication. The reason bookstores won’t carry self-pubbed books? Lack of editing. Lack of craft. Lack of an AUDIENCE, and there is the real downside to self-publishing. Who even knows those books are out there, without the kind of marketing a traditional publisher gives their authors? It is not true that a big house throws no support behind its authors, even its new authors. They have an investment there. And just BTW, it’s a two-way relationship. If a new author works hard and garners success, he makes money for his house, who will reward him with a larger advance and more marketing $$ next time.
For most of us, it doesn’t happen overnight. For many of us, it won’t happen at all. But self-pubbed or traditionally published, shouldn’t it be about the writing? If it isn’t your heart, it will show, either way. Write a fricking great book. However it’s published, the money will follow. Or not. At least you will have written a fricking great book.
Kimberly,
Not to beat a dead horse cause pretty much most of the people on this thread have agreed that the argument is pointless, but “self-publishing is a viable alternative, depending on the author’s goals and expectations” is no different than: “Traditional publishing is a viable choice, depending on the author’s goals and expectations.” I think we all agree that EITHER path is viable depending on the author’s goals and expectations.
But I think your view continues to be (and if it does there is no point in arguing it cause I won’t win a convert and that’s fine), that if an author wants to make money in publishing, that they really need to traditionally publish. That always seems to be the underlying thing being said. Traditionally published authors repeatedly say that they don’t know of a single self-published author that has made any real money doing it. While I agree it is rare, it’s not impossible. And most mainstream authors aren’t making that much either. Maybe “low end money” for mainstream publishing is higher than “low end money” for self-publishing, but you still can’t live off it in the “low end money” situation.
I feel that few people want to admit that someone who has some business sense and sets up their own imprint really “can” make decent money as a self-publishing author. And though I can point to examples of those who have done it, I can’t argue it from a point of true authority until I reach that mile marker myself. But once I reach it… good luck shutting me up about it.
April–Great article!
The economy has affected everyting else, so naturally it has affected the publishing industry. Technology has a HUGE impact on every other industry too, writing and technology included (internet, ebooks, etc). Anybody who argues against that isn’t being intellectually honest
You know how much money I made during the traditional route? $30.00
I made twice that my first month, with my self-pub anthology. Albeit, I’m mostly a short fiction writer…
Which brings up another point: The internet/indie publishing has opened a world of opportunities for me, since I do write mostly short fiction (short stories, flash, & novellas). As you’ve said, it’s different for every one.
I intend to start a magazine very soon, and POD has opened that avenue up for me.
Zoe–I also love the whole process of publishing. and Yes, it is a business decision
To whoever said, self-pub writers don’t “hone their writing”…well that’s completely untrue. Self-pub authors have to work harder at perfecting their writing than any other author out there. It’s all on us to make our writing as perfect as it can possibly be. Every single story in my anthology went through the rigormarole of some sort of critique (writing group, etc). I wouldn’t have included it in my story if I hadn’t. I have relatives who are retired teachers, happy to provide a light copy edit for a very low fee…
Professional editors in big pub houses…? well I give them credit for making it look llike a certain celebritante can actually SPELL.
And yes, we can get our books in brick and mortar bookstores–it’s called consignment. Not only that, but listing with Ingrams, B&N, et al is just a mouseclick away nowadays…Especially if you run your own small press/indie imprint.
I meant I wouldn’t have included that story in my BOOK if I hadn’t …gah, this cold medicine is affecting me.
Zoe — no, I wouldn’t say that was my point, actually. I can see how it might sound that way, since the arguments often seem to come down to that. I think the comments here have tended towards that since the only reason I even came here and commented was because Ms. Hamilton brought my name into it referencing my sales numbers.
My personal goal as an author isn’t actually the money. I used to be a corporate manager and I made a bunch o’ money — and was miserable. To get my salary up to the same level as I used to earn is possible, but it will likely take me at least 3 or 4 books (and would be much easier if I wrote more than one book a year, which seems to be where I am now). I write because I love to write and because I want to reach readers. This is something Saundra touched on too — you yourself said that a self published author needs to see far fewer copies than a traditionally published one to make “X” amount of money.
After a year of sales as a debut author from a smallish publishing house, I’ve sold over 40,000 copies. Many more people than that have read my book, between the review copies (which aren’t in that number) and the libraries who have stocked the book (which they did because my publisher took me to ALA — as a side note, I talked to a self pubbed author who had a booth at ALA this past year and she was very disappointed because none of the convention goers bothered to stop and check out her book once they figured out it was self pubbed; she had thought that if she was there, it would be like the magical “If you build it, they will come” thing) and even the ones I hand sold myself from the small stockpile I bought for that purpose (which also don’t count in my official numbers). Not to mention the teens that write me to tell me how they passed their copy around to all of their friends. If I had self published the book, my readers would be a fraction of that.
As I’ve also said before, I can only speak from my own experiences. The self pubbed authors that I personally know have never seen numbers over 2,000. Many of them become discouraged after their first book and never get around to that second one. Yes, it is definitely possible and I hope you do it. But it is hard and it is a LOT of work. I spend a lot of time (and also money) now promoting my book. If I had self published, it would need to be much more. That’s time that I would rather spend either writing or with my family.
And, to go back to money, I don’t think the numbers necessarily add up. Did you see Ellen Hopkins response to my blog post with her numbers? I sincerely hope that I hit similar numbers when I am on my fifth book (and so does my husband). As you know, it makes a huge difference what an individual’s royalty percentage is as well as what format their book comes out in.
At any rate, I wish you and all other writers the best. The whole reason I had posted my first statement up in the first place was to provide information for my fellow writers that was specific rather than general.
Ellen–You are forgetting that many writers have successfully utilized self-publishing as an in road to traditional publishing rather than a way around it (many nay-sayers do). Jeremy Robinson for one, Christopher Paolini for another…
You’re also forgetting that some (like me) really do want to become publishers themselves, albeit smaller indie presses.
Self-publishing is a great proving ground for both.
My point was simply that distribution is not the same, and that bookstores really do make a huge difference in volume sales. This is not to say that other channels are impossible–look at the small presses who aren’t distributed in the chains, for example. (This is a model I’ll be approaching, by necessity, with my own new small press once we start publishing, because small presses can’t even *get* distribution deals until they have 5 or more books out.) And because of returns, a large chain or big box order is something a small press has to be wary about, because even if B&N takes 80,000 copies, they can return 79,000 and no one is out any money but the publisher. So it’s tough all around.
Certainly there are segments who are doing the self-publishing thing successfully. A friend of mine, Howard Tayler has been doing the self-publishing thing successfully because his webcomic has a large established audience, and his experience seems to reflect a lot of independent comic artists’ experience when they self-publish and sell their books through their websites and conventions. However, fiction can be harder, because you don’t have the established 20,000 or more regular readers that boil down to the 1000 true fans thing (search Howard’s site for links on that–it’s a really interesting principle).
As with Kimberly, I think self-publishing can be a viable alternative (after all, Howard’s supporting his family via self-publishing), but it’s important to go into it with the right information, knowing that you’re doing all the work a publisher has to do and then some. (And Howard’s wife, Sandra, who self-published a picture book, will rarely recommend the route to authors she talks to because she didn’t have the built-in audience Howard did.)
We’re in the midst of a huge transition in publishing, and perhaps bookstores won’t matter as much in the long run if you’ve got other ways of allowing the reader to browse (I myself, for the aforementioned small press, am looking at a number of different options because I’ll have to sell those first few books without benefit of distributor, same as any self-publisher). But my point was that it’s important not to discount the importance of bookstore shelf space. Even in the non-coop areas of the bookstore, just having your book on the shelf is free advertisement in a way that an online ad/listing that people have to go looking for is not (and yes, most premium placement in chain stores is bought & paid for). This is also why indie bookstores are so important, because they tend to support books based on how well they like them and how they fit their community, unlike chains and big box stores.
And as someone above said, self-published authors can sometimes get the attention of their local indies, which is a good thing, too–if the book is good, the book is good, whether it comes from a mainstream house or an author who self-published. I just think it’s important to remember that bookstores *are* important–after all, despite gains in online sales, brick and mortar stores are still estimated to sell 55-60% of all books out there. But for self-published authors, that attention will be painstaking and require a lot of legwork. A mainstream publisher will have already-established relationships with the buyers, and a team of salespeople working across the country (either in-house or via a distributor) that the self-published author won’t have access to. This is an important distinction, just as it’s important to remember that the self-published author won’t have the benefit of an editor unless they pay for it, and they won’t have the benefit of a good designer unless they pay for it, and so forth.
By the way, Zoe, that cover is nicely professional–so unlike the vast majority of self-pubbed covers I’ve seen! It’s a perfect example of a service, though, that doesn’t always make sense cost-wise a la carte for the individual author–costs that a publisher covers as a matter of course, spread out across many books, utilizing people with industry expertise.
It may happen that one day editing, design, art, and sales may just be outsourced directly from the author–who knows? But just as distribution tends to make more sense in a conglomeration, selling many books from one publisher rather than one book at a time, those services *tend* to be more cost-effective from a publisher. If an author wants to spend the money on services they don’t have expertise in to ensure that their books meet market standards, great! It’s just a lot of money to come up with, and the quality of the book will suffer if the author doesn’t have those skills him or herself–and the distribution simply isn’t equal. There are ways around that problem, but it’s a problem nonetheless.
“To dismiss my entire post on the basis of a failed ebook experiment in the time of ebooks’ infancy is pretty surprising coming from someone as generally savvy as yourself where publishing is concerned.”
To be fair, if that’s what you took from my response, you missed its point as entirely as you seem to feel I dismissed yours. I took your post to be a calling out of the “harsh realities” associated with mainstream publishing, which you purport come as a “shock” to many writers, which is why self-publishing has viability. I was merely noting that anyone to whom the figures you cited come as a shock never did his (or her) homework.
“I don’t think a single one of the commenters who’ve dissented has explicitly disagreed with my overall assertion, which again, is simply that the mainstream path isn’t all it’s built up to be in most aspiring authors’ minds,”
Well, sure, anyone who thinks a mainstream publication contract will come with sunshine and puppy farts is going to be disappointed. But anyone who thinks that probably doesn’t know much about publication in general anyway.
But look: self-publication can’t be a viable option for anyone who thinks mainstream publication is all sunshine and puppy farts solely because anyone who thinks so knows pretty much nothing about publishing, which means they don’t know when and how self-publishing might be a more viable option than traditional publication. If most aspiring writers think that mainstream publication is the ideal scenario, they are, quite simply, not ready for the reality that is publishing, no matter the prefix you stick in front of it. You have, in effect, destroyed your own argument.
Will -
I did not know all the financial realities of the mainstream path until after I’d self-published. I still imagined advances to be quite generous (if not in the six figure range), and was unaware of publisher holdback-against-future-returns policies. I never would’ve suspected it was possible to hit the NYT bestseller list multiple times and still net less than $30K a year on your books, until I read those revealing, recent posts from some daring authors. I was aware of other factors I raise in this post, such as shrinking to nonexistent promo budgets that force most authors to do all their own promotion. I was also already convinced of brick-and-mortar chain stores’ declining importance, but only recently learned (from the first-hand experiences of author friends) that if you don’t hit the bestseller list you’ve got 90 days on those shelves, tops.
I chose the self-publishing route for reasons unrelated to the issues of which I was largely unaware. Yet my ignorance in those areas did not prevent me from releasing some quality, very well-received self-published books, including one that was just picked up by Writer’s Digest Books to be published in an updated and revised edition in 2010.
So…what does this new information do to *your* argument? ;’ )
April — Viehl never said that her total take was less than $30K a year on her books — just on the ONE book. She didn’t post what her total earnings were across all her books. She only posted numbers on ONE book. She’s making money on anything still in print and anything out there in foreign editions, etc. There’s no telling what her total income is from just the one book’s numbers.
I’m nowhere near the NYT Bestseller lists, but next year when my second book comes out, I should definitely net more than $30K if my numbers just stay even and don’t grow (and they’re generally expected to grow when you release a sequel). I’m also going to start to see some income from audio and international sales as they hit.
I’m not trying to argue, I just want to clarify. My book is also still in stores long past the 90 day limit (saw it yesterday, as a matter of fact, and it was actually face front). It came out in August 2008 and it’s still there.
Every book is different, but I just don’t see the traditional publishing option as negatively as you seem to be painting it.
My understanding from the article is that in the year the example book was released, it was the only book from which she was earning significant royalties. I think she even mentions somewhere in the article the difficulty of maintaining a comfortable income with only one new book (or less) going into print each year, and I believe there’s also mention of more prolific authors’ tendency to earn more.
I just re-read her article to be sure, but I read that differently. She had a big “If” in there. And honestly, I find it hard to believe that she’d have only one book out in print in *any* language when she’s on her 7th or 8th book and on the NYT Bestseller list.
But even if that was the case, really, it’s all individual. Ellen only publishes one book a year and her numbers are very different from Viehl’s. To quote just a portion of what she posted up:
“I got an $8000 advance for CRANK. Low, also because it was unagented. The book came out in Oct. 04, and this statement is for the period ending March ‘09, so this is for four and a half years: Net units sold are 460,839 Net earnings are $354,379.33.”
She also posted info on her other books and advances, which were earning her money alongside of CRANK. You can see it at http://kimberlypauley.com/2009/11/21/a-challenge-for-my-fellow-authors/ in the comments.
Kimberly -
We’re kind of going around in circles now, so let me clarify my position. I’ve come to view the financial success stories in authorship as exceptional relative to the type of publication. In other words, authors who are making terrific money on their books are not the norm, regardless of who published them.
I don’t doubt that there are mainstream-published authors who are not household names but are earning a comfortable living on their book advances and royalties, but I DO doubt very much that this is the typical outcome for most mainstream-published authors. Likewise, I know of many self-published authors who are supporting themselves and their families on their book earnings alone, but again, I think we’d all agree they are exceptional among their self-publishing peers.
There’s nothing terribly new or controversial here. The only thing that makes it worth my while to post such a blog in the first place is the fact that (in my experience and research) most aspiring authors do not know, or believe, that authors published by big, mainstream houses are earning anything less on their books than an income sufficient to allow them to quit their day jobs.
In my opinion, that belief is a big part of the driving force that keeps many aspiring authors toiling away year in and out, through countless rejection slips and disappointments. I’m not saying any of them should quit, just that before one commits such a huge chunk of one’s life, energy, dreams and hopes to a goal, she ought to know exactly what that the achievement of that goal means—and conversely, what it does not mean. There will always be those extremely talented and/or lucky few who break through to become hugely successful, but “common knowledge” holds that just getting your book published by a major house equates to, if not fame and outrageous fortune, at least a comfortable living. And for the great majority of authors, it doesn’t appear to be true.
“So…what does this new information do to *your* argument? ;’ )”
Nothing, really. It wasn’t new; a perfunctory glance through the bio information of this post had already noted all that. I see your book there in the upper left. Writer’s Digest is smart and knows that it can bank on a guide that will help authors who want to self-publish through the process of doing so, and I hope your book helps prepare them for it, notwithstanding the irony of a mainstream publishing company distributing an Indie Author’s guide to anything, which you discuss well in your blog. I wish you, WD, and your readers all the best with it.
I’m not sure I had an argument besides that it’s important for writers to do their own homework, and that the numbers you (and I) cited should come as no surprise to any writer. My argument, if I have one, is that this is our business and we should know it; it’s arguable whether anyone shocked by any aspect of it should be in it in the first place. They are certainly not a sign of decline in mainstream publishing or a reason to avoid it, which is what I infer from your post.
Will said:
“My argument, if I have one, is that this is our business and we should know it; it’s arguable whether anyone shocked by any aspect of it should be in it in the first place. They are certainly not a sign of decline in mainstream publishing or a reason to avoid it, which is what I infer from your post.”
Then I’m afraid you infer incorrectly. I’ll state my thesis yet again, this time with feeling:
“…the mainstream path isn’t all it’s built up to be in most aspiring authors’ minds, and that the self-pub path, while challenging, can be an effective means for an aspiring author to reach his goals.”
Very interesting discussion. Lots and lots about numbers, making money (or not), hard work (or not) and the awe-inspiring disappointment people feel when they find a mainstream publisher.
But there’s something else. I read a lot – have done ever since I was knee high to a grasshopper (whatever that means). And recently I have read a handful of traditionally published books which were… um, let me think of the right word… I know. They were crap. Awful. Absolutely terrible. Characters were extraordinarily superficial; plots were transparent and gruesomely unrealistic; the writing itself was no better than average, and sometimes worse. I won’t mention names for fear of being struck down by a lawsuit, but believe me, these books were so bad that I THREW THEM AWAY. I didn’t even take them to a charity shop, thinking that someone on their uppers scarcely deserves to have that sort of book thrust upon them.
To be sure, there haven’t been many. Perhaps half a dozen in the last couple of years. But my point is, how on earth does such utter rubbish get accepted for publication, while perfectly respectable books don’t? Oh, I understand that if you write a perfectly respectable Western, say (to echo comments on another post), you probably won’t get accepted because Westerns aren’t flavour of the month. But why do perfectly respectable thrillers, for example, get rejected, when awful examples of the same genre are smugly on the bookshelves? I don’t write thrillers, but I read them, and three of the aforementioned half a dozen were thrillers. I have read self-published thrillers which were MUCH better than these main-published grotesques.
Don’t write saying this is all a matter of subjective opinion because – trust me on this – if I was to send you the half dozen books I have in mind, you’d throw them away too. So what’s the answer? How did they do it? How did (does) it happen? I have my own dark theory, but I would love to hear the opinion of the knowledgeable people who have contributed to this thread.
Yes, indeed, we are going in circles. I’ll leave it that we’ll have to agree to disagree. My experiences just don’t match up with yours.
Stephen– I know what you mean. I have a bunch of traditionally published sf/fantasy books on my shelves that I can barely get through the first page of. I set them on the shelf, and never touched them again.
I also wonder how some of the crapola gets published, …well two of the SF stories I know why. They capitalize on a well-known franchise. The rest thought…?
IMO, I think publishers think of it like gambling; or more to the point the stock market. They want to put their money on what they think will earn them back their money. The “same old stuff” gets published over and over again, because they think it’s what’s making them money…and they are afraid to take a gamble on something that might be a little too unique.
As for weak plots, and lame characters…I don’t get it. I wonder how many publishers in the large commercial publishing houses actually study fiction writing. You’d think so-called experts in the field would be able to tell if a story has a weak, mary sue protagonist or a lame, trite plot. Do they really think readers like that stuff??
“I wonder how many publishers in the large commercial publishing houses actually study fiction writing.”
I would argue that of many so-called writers, actually.
“You’d think so-called experts in the field would be able to tell if a story has a weak, mary sue protagonist or a lame, trite plot. Do they really think readers like that stuff??”
Obviously, many readers do. Personally, I don’t read much commercial adult fiction (a la Patterson or Grisham, or any author who relies on formula), but huge audiences seem fine with those formulaic “easy reads.” Huge enough audiences, BTW, that Patterson and Grisham are making plenty of money in traditional publishing, as are their houses. I won’t argue that a lot of not good fiction is published every year. But someone’s definitely buying it.
“friend of mine, Howard Tayler has been doing the self-publishing thing successfully because his webcomic has a large established audience, and his experience seems to reflect a lot of independent comic artists’ experience when they self-publish and sell their books through their websites and conventions.”
Comics are actually quite often self-pubbed, and do realize much success this way.
We’ve all sort of agreed to disagree here, but while many of you are arguing that people should be “warned” away from traditional publishing, I feel the same way about self-publishing. There are no shortcuts to success, or to making money from your writing. Anyone who has enough ambition to actually market a self-published book and make a success of it (and we all agree there are people out there who can/will do that) also has the ability to make his/her traditionally published book a major success.
On the other end, for those of us who have chosen traditional publishing, the platform becomes less crowded with every person who chooses self-publishing instead. So yay. Encourage every wannabe writer into POD, please… that way we can also save trees!
Once again: Many writers aren’t using POD to circumvent traditional publishing, but as a way to attract agents & acquisition editors. A self-published title that sells over 1,000 copies will seem more attractive to a major publisher (who can use its marketing resources to double or even tripple that number) than a tattered, dog eared coffee-stained manuscript that shows signs of being sent around to many, many publishers…
Once again: POD is a valuable resource for someone who wants to run their own small press or magazine.
What was once only a pipe dream (for myself & others) has never become easier or more affordable.
More small presses are popping up, in various genres…
As Commercial houses narrow their gates, new ones open up.
As far as bookstores: If someone wants to read your book badly enough, they’ll look wherever you have it available…
be it B&N, Borders, your local indie book store, or Amazon.
But, you better make sure you do the work to get people interested…and use Amazon availability, or whatever store you get consignment deals with as part of your marketing plan.
As far as online sales: There may always be technophobics & people who don’t own computers…but they are few and far between IMO. consignment deals in 2-3 local stores suit thier needs as well.
And, if I had a dime for every person who told me “I’ll find it on amazon” regarding any book they show interest in…
I’d be able to fund my magazine without the help of my day job! LOL
Hey Kimberly, I hear ya! I’ve had those times when I’ve been referenced on a blog and i go to respond and it goes in a totally diff direction than I intended it to. I’m also sorry for misreading what you said earlier. It can be very difficult to interpret what someone means in text in the flow of a conversation like this. I also agree with you that most self pubbing authors don’t sell more than 2,000 copies of a book. (Hey most don’t even get to 500) And I might not either, only way I can know is to try. I also think whatever the number is, will grow as I build up a backlist and explore different marketing opportunities. I’m definitely on a “10-year plan” here.
Hey Stacy,
I’m a big fan of the 1,000 true fans principle! I don’t think a writer could live directly off 1,000 true fans purchasing all their books, but the true fans tell all their friends and that’s valuable word-of-mouth advertising.
Thanks on the cover! I had it designed professionally by a very talented cover artist, Anne Cain. And I got her for FAR less than she’s worth.
Will,
I think you make a very interesting and valid point when you talk about the people who think mainstream publishing is all sunshine and puppy farts probably wouldn’t succeed self publishing because they don’t yet know enough about publishing. There is far too much naivite among many unpublished writers still and many of them see self-publishing as a shortcut. I wish the truth were that most self-pubbers were doing it because they loved it and they’d crunched numbers and looked at all the factors for both paths and chose the one that was right for them, but sadly this is rarely the case. Most of them run out to Authorhouse or Lulu, spend a ton of money, design ugly covers, dont’ properly edit, etc. etc. don’t know how to market, expect to somehow get “picked up by a publisher to get rich and famous” and it’s just epic fail all the way around.
Though, I also agree with April… while most of us don’t think most NY pubbed writers are rich, a lot of us DID think they were at least making a full-time living as NY pubbed authors, and that often isn’t the case. Maybe a supplementary income if they have a spouse that is the primary earner but it’s a rare published author (of any description) that can call it their sole source of income and live on it. But I wasn’t a noob author that was sending things in on pink scented paper. I’d read all the books on publishing, and considered myself one of the less tragically noobtastic, but you really have no concept of the numbers until people start sharing those numbers.
But Kimberly made a good point about context of the numbers. i.e. how many books did the author have out/how far along in their career are they? What format is the book in? what is the royalty percentage? etc. etc. Lots of factors.
Ellen, I also agree with what you’re saying to some extent. Though I don’t feel writers should be warned away from trad or self-publishing. I think they should be fully educated on both options and then pick the one that suits their temperament and goals. I think many people who go down trad publishing paths would be happier as self-publishers. But I think many self-publishers aren’t cut out for it and should have stuck with trying for trad publishing. I also don’t think it should have to be the Sharks and the Jets. There are authors who successfully utilize BOTH trad and self-publishing for different projects and I think too much extremism on either end either “ZOMG NO self publishing is evil!” or “ZOMG NO trad publishing is evil!” closes doors and opportunities that may have been found in both.
K. Crumley, I LOVE that I can be a publisher AND a writer, that both of those doors have opened to me with lower barriers because I don’t think I could be happy doing just one of those things.
Zoe — I really do hope you succeed because you seem like you’ve weighed your options and made a decision that is right for you. So many of the self published authors I know really didn’t. They just jumped in and had huge expectations and were sorely disappointed.
And you’re very right — whatever path a writer chooses, they need to do their research and figure out what works for them. There is no right or wrong.